Preaching: Your book, The Prevailing Church (Moody Press), has become an influential church growth resource for pastors and church leaders. Describe for me what a prevailing church is.

Pope: I use the term to speak to the cautious church. I grew up always afraid to take risks — call up ten people to make sure you know (what to do). Prevailing means it is a church that is actually winning. The prevailing team is a winning team — not just in the battle for winning souls but in the battle of changing the culture of the community where that church is placed — the church that is making a difference in that community whether it be in the social side of the community, the educational, the political.

The prevailing church is one in which you see the characteristics of a whole confession of Christ as being the son of the living God; they literally live out that confession in the shadows of the gates of Hades. The prevailing church is one that’s moving outward and then going beyond, taking on the battles for the souls of lost people. They’re doing what’s it take to get to you. And then ultimately they win the battle. That’s the prevailing church.

Preaching: You talk about the need for the church to be oriented externally vs. an internal orientation. Talk about where the focus of the church ought to be.

Pope: I think the church’s focus internally is very, very important but only to prepare us to be external. When we start thinking in terms of internal and not external focus, we become a very dangerous organization; it does more damage to the culture than it does good. Our goal is not to build communities in a church; we build missional communities. We’re here for each other but in order that we might reach out – to the needs of hurting people, of hungry people, seriously thirsting people — whatever the needs are.

Preaching: How do you lead a congregation toward that kind of focus on lost people as opposed to the situation in many churches — completely being focused on making sure my needs are met?

Pope: I haven’t found a pastor who’s honest who doesn’t have people who say that. I haven’t seen a church where everybody says “Oh, yeah. Lets go out.” They may say let’s go out — but by the way, don’t take away from my needs being met. It’s like the man who called me and said, “I’m shopping for churches. I live in another state and I want to live near my church when I go to Atlanta.” He goes, “Tell me a little bit about you’re church. I’ve understand your church is very committed to reaching lost people.” I said: I’m thrilled to hear that is reputation. We are. We’re very committed to that