It isn’t just a pulpit and people gathering to listen to a person preach, but it is that. It includes that. I could not look back to a small group that changed my life, but I could look back to sermons, messages I heard from people I admired, that transformed my life. I could almost give you those messages verbatim today. I know the value of small groups. I believe with all my heart in mentoring and I believe in the value of accountability bringing our lives close to others who love us and are looking out for us. But in the final analysis, I think the preaching of the Word of God remains top priority in any local church. Or should remain that, it should be that. I am the choir at this point. You’re talking to the choir here. Yep, I’m in your corner, man.

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Preaching: Who are some of the preachers who have really influenced your life?

Swindoll: He’s now dead, but S. Lewis Johnson was one of my teachers at Dallas Seminary, a fine preacher. Howard Hendricks, of course, his ministry and influence in my life. I was an intern — if not his first, among the first — of Ray Stedman’s; he was an influence in my life. Someone through whom I’ve been influenced in his pen more than in person I think would be Warren Wiersbe. I love Warren — I love his style, I love his commitment to the scriptures, I like his practicality. Haddon Robinson has been a long-time friend of mine and was one of my mentors at Dallas Seminary. Donald Barnhouse — I used to hear him on the radio, never knew him and never met him; I was influenced by his approach to scriptures, especially the handling of the doctrines and his work on Romans. John R.W. Stott is someone I really admire as a preacher of God’s truth. I could name a number who taught me at seminary. But, that’s a pretty good rundown.

Preaching: As you look at preaching across the church, are there some things that give you a sense of optimism and are there also some things that are concerns for you?

Swindoll: I think the desperation of our times causes me to realize that if the church does its job, and some are really doing the job, people cannot stay away. Ray Stedman used to say, “If the church were doing what it is supposed to be doing the world would become so attracted, so curious, if nothing else, the sheer curiosity of it would draw them in.” I think the church that has a message that is balanced and in touch, biblically-centered and delivered in an interesting and appealing manner, I’m very encouraged — I don’t think people are turning that off. I think their finding that it is almost contagious for them.

I am discouraged that some guys are selling out to the stylized approach to ministry where it is, as I mentioned earlier, becoming more of an entertainment center. As I heard a preacher say, “It was about two miles wide and three inches deep.” One preacher said, “I always like leaving them laughing when they leave.” It’s one of the silliest comments I’ve ever heard. If I leave them laughing have I done anything? Now, you know me. You’ve heard me enough, I love to laugh, probably as much as any preacher you know. So I’ve got nothing against laughter but one of my goals is not to leave people laughing. It is to get out of the way so the spirit of God can use the truth in their lives. And I think churches that are doing that are in demand. Churches that aren’t easily lead people to a wrong conclusion: that God is just a great big friend, just a good buddy, happens to live in heaven.